Study Abroad & Business School

About This Episode

Episode #1 is with Nikhil Mehrotra. He is a BTA at Deloitte Consulting and co-founder of Free Logic Media. Topics discussed in this podcast include:

1. How to prepare for study abroad

2. The value of studying abroad

3. How to make the most of studying abroad experience

4. Critique of Business School curriculum

5. How Business Schools can improve their programs

Listen To The Episode On Spotify

Video Transcription

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Brew, a podcast series with Deep Dives into trending topics about business and culture. Now sit back and join in on the conversation over a cup of freshly brewed coffee.

[00:00:21] Welcome to the Brew presented by Free Logic Media today I’m joined by the co-founder of our business and we’re going to various topics, talking about academia, study abroad and all that good stuff.

[00:00:30] So we’re going get started talking first about study abroad. So study abroad. Both of us have done study abroad and I think study abroad is by far the most crucial thing everybody should do in their undergrad experience. If they can, of course, do it as well as if they’re a business. And I think the value really comes from business by any kind of discipline. You should do a study abroad.

[00:00:53] Yeah, well, actually, I’m going to say that it’s like I feel like a lot of people go and study abroad because they just want to go on vacation and like, I don’t want to throw anyone on the bus, do what you want. But the value and especially being a U.S. student, you end up paying like double double tuition. So, you know, if you’re going to study abroad, I mean, I highly recommend it to if you’re going to study abroad, make sure it’s like for academic purposes and actually get a global point of view.

[00:01:17] Yeah, 100 percent. I mean, yeah, that kind of goes back into what you said. A lot of a lot of people look at it like this is vacation time. This is fun. Trust me, if you want to do a vacation time, just do it on a vacation time and it’s cheaper, it’s cheaper. And then you don’t have to go to classes. You can actually enjoy your time there. But the experience that I personally got, I know as well you got from your study abroad completely change your perspective on things. So we’re going to Deep Dive first into the study abroad of Hong Kong. So both of us got to study abroad in Hong Kong. And I kind of want to jump in first about what it’s like to actually study abroad because it sounds so glamorous. But there is a shock factor that I don’t think a lot of people realize. So for me personally, I’ve never been to Asia my life before. I did the study abroad and it didn’t hit me until I actually got onto that plane. The second I got onto that plane, I realized, holy crap, I’m going on a 16 hour flight to Hong Kong. Never been Asia my life. Yeah, I don’t know one person. They’re not studying abroad from anybody, from UCR or anybody I even know in general. I have no idea what to expect. And it kind of just shocked me. Like, what experience did you have, like preparing to go to Hong Kong?

[00:02:22] Yeah, I mean, kind of the same. But like, the thing for me, like, it’s not really I can’t really draw as many parallels, but I feel like a lot of people I’ve met who studied abroad had the same as you. So like for me, I grew up in Irvine, California, is very new. A lot of Asian people culture is all around, like everywhere. Like all my friends. Like I learned what Boba was in high school.

[00:02:47] Like most people that I know here didn’t learn about it until college. I well, I think so. I think going to Hong Kong, I wasn’t as scared about the culture shock. And honestly, there hardly was any culture shock for me. But all the friends I made, there were a lot of people studying abroad at the same time as me. They were just like, yeah, I can’t stand the food. The people are so rude. And I was like, OK, cool, relax.

[00:03:11] Yeah, it’s definitely interesting prospect. Like, yeah, you’re originally from India, so you have traveled to Asia before. You’ve gone to India before. Yeah.

[00:03:17] Like I don’t even know how many times. It’s six, seven times. It’s not that many times for like twenty two years of life. But you know, I knew somewhat what to expect in Hong Kong, blew my expectations in many ways based off of what I know of Asia. You know, like I was very clean, very organized. Whereas in yes, for the most part not. Yeah. So yeah, it was actually great, like I said from the beginning was like, I love this place and I felt very comfortable.

[00:03:44] I was good. I mean for me it was kind of an interesting experience when I actually got to Hong Kong. So of course I was kind of the nerves hit me when I was on the plane. I was like, oh, crap, I’m going to new country. Never been here before, but it got real when I actually got out into the airport because my student housing was technically a Buddhist monastery, that they turned into student housing. So I didn’t have like an actual address. So the struggle with that was when you get out of the airport, when you go get a taxi, right. You tell the person just want going and then they tell the taxi driver, well, in my situation, the taxi driver spoke no English. So the guy told him in Chinese and I’m like, this is going to be there’s going to be trip. So I got into the taxi cab and he drove me to an address that was listed on him. That address, which is the university address, it wasn’t my the Buddhist monastery address. So we go there and we ask, all right, so where’s this building like, oh, it’s up the street, go down the street and then go up the driveway. So, of course, the taxi driver did that. Once we go up the street, the house we turn up on has a Lamborghini out front, huge house. Find out it’s like the Associate Dean house or something like that. I mean, magnificent house. I’m like, oh, I’m staying here this afternoon. Obviously, we get there. The security comes through the door and he’s like, okay, you guys get the wrong place. I asked him what is a place? And he’s like, oh, it’s down the street. So we go there, we go up and we go into the building at the building. Nobody was there for checking. Absolutely zero people. Like I said, it was just like old Buddhist monastery. People were still on their break from winter break. Ah, yeah. Nobody was there. And I called my dad. I was like, I don’t know where I am. I don’t know if this is the right place. I just have my suitcase and. I hope this is the right thing. I sat there for two hours until somebody came and I asked like, oh, is this the building? And they’re like, yes. So that was my introduction to Hong Kong. So that’s why for me, it was kind of a not necessary a culture shock, but it was new because I had to figure that out by myself. And this was the first day or the first day I was like, oh, this is going to be an experience of a lifetime. Yeah.

[00:05:39] I mean, I although there was no culture shock or anything like you had from the very beginning, I did have a somewhat similar experience. I mean, actually, what time did you land? What time did you buy land? It was in the morning. So I got there about 10:00 a.m.. OK, so it wasn’t as scary. I mean. Yeah. So like for me, I think I had a pretty wild experience too. I think so. I just ended my internship like three or four days right before, like I had to fly out. So I wasn’t really thinking about the study abroad and it wasn’t like I didn’t have the mental capacity to think about it. So as soon as I sat on the plane, it all just hit me like a truck and like I probably almost started tearing up. And so it was like just all my emotions. I mean, the first thing was like literally the night before I saw the girl is not my girlfriend. So, yeah, that was that was great. Um, and then, like, I’ve been to India before, but never alone. Yeah. So there was that like I always had the comfort of my family and I was younger too, and I went to India. So, you know, I never really had to figure stuff out on my own. But I guess one thing, keeping me confident was that like most people are supposed to have spoken English. I mean, although that’s the thing in India, I was just like, I’m Indian. People know I’m Indian and people in India know that I’m Indian who is not from India, you know, I mean, like so I can’t really, like, survive there as easily as I can in any other country, to be honest. Maybe I can, but, uh, anyway. Yeah. So hit me on the plane as soon as I landed is raining outside. I’m like OK, great abroad. No because and it was like monsoon season or whatever. It’s on call. Yeah. It was nighttime, probably like 9:00 pm, 10:00 pm.

[00:07:22] But I was like it’s fine like this taxis and stuff. So again the taxi luckily I had English speaking taxi driver. I knew where to go, but then he got more emotional than because it’s like we’re driving down that whole island, like on the going up to the bridge. Right. It’s pretty like empty, but there are some like nice like looking buildings like on the side it was raining. And then like all of a sudden I hear Chris Martin, Chris Martin’s voice and I’m like Coldplay.

[00:07:47] And it was like it was it was either yellow or fix you by Coldplay. Like that threw me back to like middle school. There’s almost no right now, you know, that kind of thing. That was that was fun. And then I got to the university and. Yeah. So just like you like I didn’t know where to go, but like, we got directions, we end up there. But there’s no clear marking of which building it is. So finally, like past like a shooting was like walking by like, hey, where do I go? You know, he’s like, oh, you can just like get off here or something. Right. But again, there’s no clear indication there’s like a parking lot, like in the back of the building. So he took me there and then I see the door. I’m trying to get in, but I can’t get in. I’m like, OK, great, it’s raining, the door’s locked. What do I do? So I go around to the other side of the building, a huge set of stairs, decide to leave my suitcase on the floor. I’m just like, OK, just really hope nobody takes this right now. I’m gonna go up and I’m like, lost as hell. And then finally I see a guy and it’s like pretty late at night. So I was like, thank you for being here. And like, hey, where I go. And so he took me inside, help me with my bags. And then. Yeah. So by the time I got into my apartment, my dorm, I was sweating, I was dressed and rain. I was exhausted, barely had any sleep and then yeah, my roommate wasn’t there but all of his friends stuff was like on my side of the room. So I was like freaking out and like my life wasn’t turning on for as hot as hell. And then I couldn’t get the Wi-Fi. And then finally at end of the night, I’m trying to sleep and I can’t sleep. So it’s just like the first introduction to light. Sorry about I was like, fuck, like, yeah, where did what am I doing.

[00:09:32] Yeah, no, I think it’s a lot of people think that when you go everything’s kind of planned out for you, everything’s gonna be perfect. But the reality is like I knew what I was getting into, I traveled by myself multiple times before I even went to Hong Kong. And even though I kind of had a game plan, exactly what I wanted to do, things just do not go exactly as you expect. So it’s kind of important. I think anybody who does want to study abroad get some experience traveling either alone or like a small trip or something. Just understand that like things go wrong and have a contingency plan or just understand, don’t freak out. The last thing I want to do and when things don’t go the right way is freaking out because I start freaking out. You don’t think radically you’re going to do stupid stuff. Yeah. And your experience is going to kind of hurt from that because you’re going to freak out and you know, I’m just not going to be right. Yeah. But like within Hong Kong. So I. You see, we both went there for education purposes, so I went to see you and you went to HK to. Yeah. So when it came to like obviously our introduction there and all that kind of stuff. But how was your experience with the university in general? Because obviously to study abroad, you’re there for learning purposes, educational purposes. Oh, we’re like the classes there compared to the U.S. because a lot of people don’t understand, like global education, every country, their education system is very different.

[00:10:44] Yeah, I mean, I’m not going to lie. Like, if I was there for I mean, OK now. Yeah, I was there for educational purposes, but obviously I was studying abroad. I wanted to travel, of course, like, yeah. I wasn’t fully, I guess, involved in the sense that I would have been like a quarter earlier at home, but at the same time, like, I instantly noticed that. Like, professors have so much more passion and there’s so much more involved in what they’re teaching, so much more engaged, know how to engage the class and how to walk around the classroom, like that’s a big thing. Just like just just walking from left to right like that makes a big difference because it’s like showing how they’re involved and they want you to pay attention. Yeah, very engaging classes like one of my marketing classes. We did kind of like a business simulation thing, more towards marketing. So that was pretty legit.

[00:11:41] Digital marketing professor. He became a good connection of mine. He was American, too, which is cool. So we were able I think his daughter goes to school in California to be able to, like, connect on that kind of science and like managed, not managed, but like we met up for coffee one day and like, you know, give a good amount of advice for, like, our business. Right. So that was a great connection. To have another professor was like he was also American, Harvard educated. So, I mean, I didn’t necessarily enjoy that class, but it just goes to show, like, wow, you know, I’m being taught by a Harvard guy. Yeah, that’s legit. And then another guy, he was Indian. And I’m naming out like all other ethnicities because. Yeah, no, no professors are Chinese. So like the first one I mentioned, he was Filipino and so one Filipino, two Americans and an Indian guy in in or. Yeah. So he was he was very engaged as well. Very smart, more entrepreneur minded. So yeah.

[00:12:41] Like I wish I was more engaged in my classes so I could have taken a lot more out of it. I also wish I took like a global business course, but yeah I think other than so the classes themselves are great. But the problem is like it’s a very competitive environment. So luckily I was there to study abroad. I wasn’t there necessarily for my grade because at this point, like I’ve had internships and I might add my grades were decent enough, good enough already where it was like I wasn’t too worried if they were going to go down a little bit. And the problem was that everyone else was stressed out of their minds, especially around midterms and finals seasons. And it’s just like scary and like hearing about, you know, mental health issues and stuff like that. So it is like a contrast which I think needs to be addressed. But it also goes into Asian culture, which can be easily. Fixed, it’s very deep rooted.

[00:13:36] Yeah, nobody I definitely saw that. What are you talking about? The professor says it’s pretty interesting because one of my professors was French, one of my professors was Japanese. Very different backgrounds, obviously, like the class that’s looking like Chinese Chinese transformation, like cultural classes there. They were Chinese professors. But majority of my professors in the business school, they came from different backgrounds. And I think that was actually why I really like the classes, because they gave a different lens on how business works in different countries. My favorite class that I took was Integrated Marketing Communications, so we actually created an EMC strategy for a company and we were working with Iot products. So it is very interesting because that was her background. She was a very successful business lady in Hong Kong itself, and she showed us the application side of what she does and made us do the same plan. Right. And I learned so much. I was only a second year when I did this study abroad. And because I wasn’t able to take up a division of business courses at UC, that’s one reason why I decided to do this early so I can kind of leapfrog and take classes before I was able to take my UCR and CSK kind of gave me that opportunity, which I love, but going off of the competition wise. So it is very interesting because students there are very, very competitive and I don’t think they collaborate and group projects as much. They don’t really they don’t do group projects really there too.

[00:14:50] Yeah, I was surprised by that. Yeah. I feel like I’m sorry to cut you off, but like I had a couple of good projects have a surprise that I felt like I had to study abroad. Student I was taking more of the lead and if I was not going on, you know, a couple of trips here and there, like we would have gotten good grades. But I mean, I was shocked. I was like, yo, these guys are smart people, but like, they don’t really care about this group project as much, you know. Yeah. I mean, that was for one and the other one was fantastic.

[00:15:16] But, you know, it kind of goes along, but that goes really deep into the culture as well. So like their education system, a lot of people don’t understand it’s made out of straight bell curve. So X amount of people get in. A lot of people are going to be X and I see in the D, so a there’s like a class of thirty max. Six people can get at it and that’s a and a minus is the risk. It’s plan the B, C and D, but there’s nothing to do with the percentage. And that’s what shocked me was I actually ended up getting a B in my marketing class but I did ninety four percent. Yeah. So yeah.

[00:15:43] My good friends who is from Hong Kong, he was one of our last few conversations before I was about to leave, like we were just having a moment or something and like it was like final season or whatever you tell me. Yeah. Like last quarter, last semester or whatever he had like at ninety four or something, he got a B minus. I was just like almost like threw my pork. I was just like what.

[00:16:03] I go are you kidding me. Yeah.

[00:16:05] Like I guess I got no one of my classes did screw me over with the curve but like everything else was like I was pretty lucky. OK, yeah. One of them didn’t have a curve. That was with the American professor. Thank you Professor.

[00:16:19] Yeah. But I think that’s actually a mixture because the classes that I dominie succeeded in was the classes are analytical because I have one thing I noticed the students like local students, they’re very, very good at memorization or repetition of classes. But the classes that were analytical and the way that European American education systems are somewhat surrounded around, more like reasoning and your own analysis. Those are classes that I like mostly the Asian students were struggling with while the international students were succeeding. Yeah. And we pretty much destroyed the curve. And those are the students that actually were doing worse and the international students were getting the A’s. Yeah, but it kind of shows that different education systems, when you go into a study abroad, it’s a it’s a shock to you because you have to get involved with their education system and you’re there now. You can be like, oh, in the U.S., it’s this like, no, you’re playing by their rules. And you have to understand that if for U.S. students, those grades count. So I had yeah, I had a lot of people there that their grades didn’t matter. They’re possibile. Yeah. Like most of them. I told them, you know, my grades county like I’m so sorry. But that’s why that’s why you pay double tuition, because we have to be a U.S. student at the same time.

[00:17:23] Yeah, it is kind of a tricky thing, but it was unfortunate because it did take away from the other experience, which I want to talk about now, which is what the value really, I think from study abroad is is learning another culture and also meeting people from all around the world. And I just want to put this out there right from the start. When you study abroad, do not be with people that you hang out with every day. So if you’re American, don’t hang out with Americans every single day. Right. Because it’s missing the entire idea of culture immersion. Yeah. So I hung out with only people from different countries, Germany, Switzerland, people from Korea, locals. I’ll go back and it’s like locals because like my entire building, it was everybody was a local then it was me and another American. Yeah. I got the opportunity actually play on the my building is like soccer team. So I got really, really close to the guys because I got to play soccer with them. They took me to like the way that they have dinners. They took me to like local restaurants, sit down and how they talk these days. I was taking a Chinese class. They’re Cantonese class, but they’re also teaching me like Cantonese slang and how people, like, interact there. So I actually really started to understand, like, how Hong Kong culture really is.

[00:18:29] And yeah, but I think the very important thing is when. You study abroad. You’re already an uncomfortable situation, but take it one step further and make sure your friend groups are from different cultures, because that is what’s actually going to give you that value of studying abroad.

[00:18:45] Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I, I know the way our program is designed or I don’t know if it’s the design of the program, but like I feel like most of the study abroad students were just kept together and our class of study abroad students was like the biggest one ever for that school. I can’t remember the number, but it was a lives a few hundred. And so I didn’t really become friends with too many local students. There’s like a handful and like I’m thankful for those relationships, but I do wish I was more, you know, like involved with that culture, the the Hong Kong culture, although. Yeah, like, I didn’t really stick around with too many Americans. There was like a Canadian guy who is hung out with a lot and then somebody from a few people from Sweden, actually a lot of Swedes being Irish. That’s right.

[00:19:35] Oh yeah. One of my best friends. And I’m sorry. Can you. I love you, man. Yeah.

[00:19:41] So one of my best friends from sorry about Irish and some German people too, so. Yeah, it’s pretty awesome. Yeah.

[00:19:50] I mean the reason I really like it is because you see how they interact in different countries. Yeah. And especially Europeans travel a lot because in Europe it’s so easy to travel from country to country. It’s the same thing. So you’re going state to state, but in Europe it’s go into another country. Right. So they’re kind of already immersed into that kind of transition to different cultures.

[00:20:08] And in Hong Kong, I could I could really tell these CLECs kind of built out, just like all Americans hung out together, all these Germans hung out together. And people like to go with comfortable, but I want to make sure my friend groups register versus possible because the experiences I personally had traveling and all this kind of stuff, I mean, it was mind blowing. Like, I have some crazy stories which I’m not going to talk about right now. But they came from just because the people I hung out with were very interesting and they put us into situations that, like, really taught me a lot about life and all that good stuff. But going back into learning a little bit about the local culture. So, yeah, I think it’s crucial if you’re studying abroad, something, you’re there for four months, learn the culture, try to try at least take an effort to learn the language extent and go to like street markets and all this kind of stuff. But I don’t think, you know, Hong Kong until you go to Mr. Wong’s and those that if you ever travel to Hong Kong or any of that kind of stuff, find this place called Mr. Wong’s. It’s a it’s a low key spot, but it’s fantastic. It’s all you can eat buffet and all you can drink for dirt cheap. Definitely not a company that makes a profit, but that’s that’s on them to their extent of how they make a profit. But the thing with Mr. Wong is that I loved about it was that was the spot that I got to meet everybody, because when I went to Mr. Wang’s I don’t know if. Yeah, exactly. Had the same experience, but whenever I went there, I went with a new group of people every single time, like I had I had my like, like friend group that we always went there. But we always try to bring on like, oh, you want to come out, you want to come out. You want to come out. Let’s go. OK, let’s go to Mr. Wang’s first. And that way I was able to meet like hundreds and hundreds of people from all over the world. And literally because when you are eating and drinking, that’s when you have conversations with people. That’s when you feel comfortable with people. People feel comfortable with you and you just make great friends.

[00:21:54] Yeah, I didn’t have that many sweets that Mr. Wang is just a couple.

[00:21:58] And there were like definitely more low key than your experiences, I’m sure. But yeah, I think a bunch of us like maybe twenty thirty, I don’t know a lot of us celebrating things like right before, like everyone’s about to go home. We all went to Mr. Wang’s. Yeah.

[00:22:15] And the place closed and we’re all like I mean. Yeah, a few drinks inside of us. Don’t worry Mom. Not too many. Uh, some good question. We made food but very good food. It’s very good. Just a little suspicious. You know, when you go to the bathroom and you see the bag, you’re just like, well, that’s not super clean. Yeah. You know, but anyway, I’m alive. And so, yeah, the place closed and we’re all just like, next thing you know, like all of us are in a circle, just like right outside the place and just plain random games. I can’t even remember what we were doing. We were just playing random games. And Mr. Wang comes out and blasts off in his Mercedes and like that’s probably like his sixth car. Yeah. I don’t know if he was sober either, to be honest, but. Yeah, yeah, that was fun, man. Like, it’s just a good time. Like, honestly, I don’t want to go too much into this. We’re like the following. Drinking makes a difference.

[00:23:14] It does. Yeah. And like I mean. Yeah, I mean whether you are for drinking or not, it doesn’t matter. Even if people like I had friends that came out with us who didn’t drink at all. Right. And the whole purpose was it’s an environment that people feel comfortable and want to talk. So I try it as hard as I could always to get locals to come out as local students, actually. Wanted to study all the time, and I realized that at least the culture that I’ve been raised in American culture, as well as like Finnish culture, both have been like, you have to have a mixture of work hard, but you also have to like you have to play hard as well. You’ve got you’ve got to go out and have fun because that’s how you kind of distress, have fun, all that kind of stuff. So that’s where LGF comes in. So once again, if you go to Hong Kong, you better go to those. Know that’s where all the bars and clubs are, but that’s also where it’s mostly just international people like locals don’t go there. Yeah. Is like gweilo city. That’s what they call it.

[00:24:02] But, you know, it’s funny.

[00:24:04] Like there’s a beer called gweilo, right? You don’t know that I didn’t have the. Oh, damn no. Yeah. So like, yeah. The other thing is the drinking. So like on campus they had a grocery store that sold beer. That was pretty dope. I did too. It’s a must. Yeah. So they has this beautiful gweilo. I’m like looking for ideas and stuff I guess because I was like Tyria like the cheap crappy like Tsingtao. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I was like, OK, it’s darker, stronger. I’m like, all right, I’m done. I got it Coquille. I’m like, I know what that means or whatever. And then like halfway into my so but I’m like oh that’s like, I mean like, like viscose. Yeah. I mean Waco’s, it’s just talking about white people, white people in the corner say oh no wonder I think know it’s just like it was meant for me even though I’m not white but like you know it’s branded right to you for the funny part was on the soccer team that I played on at the University CDK.

[00:24:55] That was my nickname.

[00:24:56] So what was it. Oh, great. Yeah. So when I scored a goal, the entire Gladio, they’re all chanting.

[00:25:03] It was great. Not even take as an insult. I took it as a compliment because there is just it was funny, it was like embracing the culture. Like I think that’s like the one part also is just like don’t don’t think about like politics or any of that kind of just have fun when you study abroad, like immersed in their culture, let it be. You’re only there for four months or whatever time frame you’re there. Don’t get so caught up in what they do and all that kind of stuff. You’ve got to play by the rules. Have fun there and just meet as many people as possible. But I mean, Hong Kong also does it’s not just Hong Kong, but whenever you study abroad, you also have to be very, very aware of like political stuff that is going on because you have to be self aware, not putting yourself in situations. So when I was there, there was riots in the mall in Mong Kok, right. During Chinese New Year. And I was actually just about to get off of the NTR and the police told us to get back on. And the next day my friend sent me an article and it was like a hundred and four police officers were hospitalized because people like throwing bricks and all that kind of stuff. And that was because the Chinese kind of tension in Hong Kong, which is obviously very evident right now. But I think it’s just very important when you study abroad is like, yes, have fun, be aware, but be very aware you’re still in another country. Don’t get so comfortable that you ignore your surroundings because you don’t want to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I was very close to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Luckily, I wasn’t. But I think that’s very important for people to realize that when you study abroad, don’t don’t don’t be like, oh, this is party time and I’m going to do this, this and like, I’m going to go drink and I’m going to drink so much that like I black out or something like that. You’ve got to be got to be aware you’re still a student. Stay well, it’s like so going off of the conversation about just like cultural awareness, everything that’s going on. And we talked about obviously the education system, everything is kind of different when you study abroad. But like overall, from your experience, what is the biggest takeaways you would have from your study abroad?

[00:26:58] Just be so this ties in this ties into, like, kind of what we were talking about earlier, but just be prepared, be prepared and be ready to have a flexible mindset. Yeah, cos I mean. Like, I was ready to be flexible, but me being ballsy enough to ask a girl out like the night before I left kind of affected the whole thing. As in like, you know, I wish I could be home right now. Same time you and I were, like, really starting to take off her business. Like, we we’re doing a lot of stuff. Yeah. So it took away from my experience in that way. Like, I don’t want to obviously, like, I’m glad that we were able to do that stuff, but at the same time, like, I could have been flexible in other ways, such as like my school. Oh yeah. I use a third point. Do your research so that all ties in together, because my school, which I didn’t realize because I was stupid enough not to research, was all the way on one edge of the island. I almost called it a country, but it’s not all the way on one edge of Hong Kong. The main part of Hong Kong where I actually wanted to be was on the complete opposite end. So like it would take an hour, an hour and a half just to get to where all the main stuff was. And one of my main reasons for studying in Hong Kong was because I wanted to be in a financial hub. I wanted to be and I’ve always wanted to be in a big city like I. I remember when I was in high school, like I really wanted to study at NYU. I mean, obviously I was wasn’t I learned after going to New York that I wouldn’t have survived there, but like, I felt ready like it. And it was a four month commitment, not four years. So, yeah, just be ready, have a flexible mindset and do your research. And, you know, things don’t go the right way. Just be more open. And things like I have generally been a more closed minded person, something that I’m working on. Like I could have gone off of my ass taking the bus and explored the city on my own. I do, though, a few times. But like, you know, there are a lot of days where I just didn’t leave campus because, I mean, when I was either working on stuff or do, I was just too lazy. Too bad. You know, laziness is like another thing that a lot of people have, but and that doesn’t necessarily tie into starting about in general. But, yeah, just putting those things together, like would make for an optimal experience, I’d say.

[00:29:15] OK, and I definitely agree with that. I think the biggest thing one percent is open mind because you’re like I said, you’re going into another country and all this kind of stuff. If you go into the closed, mind your experiences and you have a very false perspective on what you’re going to get into. Yeah, you have to be with an open mind and you have to be willing to understand other people’s perspectives and let it go. Don’t get caught up on anything. Really, really. And I think by far the biggest thing is talk to locals. I, I urge anybody, if you go abroad, don’t feel comfortable and just talk to people that speak English, talk to locals, travel, see places as much as possible. Traveling is very important. I mean, we didn’t really go into detail about like all the travels we did outside of Hong Kong, but travel to other places, see other cultures because you’re finally in that area. You might as well see other places around that area, you know?

[00:30:03] Yeah, I think like traveling help make up for like what I didn’t let myself do in Hong Kong. Like, where did you go?

[00:30:11] I only got a chance to go to Indonesia in Vietnam.

[00:30:14] Right. And then I went to Philippines, Korea, Japan, Thailand. So like I think going to all those places gave me a lot more perspective. I think there was more not really culture shock, but like a lot more what I wasn’t expecting than there was in Hong Kong. So for me, like the traveling aspect really opened up my mind a lot more. Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:39] No, I agree with that. And I and I think the kind of last piece of advice I would have, I mean, you pretty much touched on it with like the laziness side, but you’re there only for four months. Make that four months count. Don’t don’t sit down and watch Netflix on your laptop or any of that kind of crap, like literally go out every single day, make an experience of it, because you’re not going to get to relive that, relive that again unless you physically move to that country. Right. Which most people never do. Yeah. So you’re there, make the most of it. Travel, meet people and all that kind of good stuff. Yeah, absolutely. But going off on that note, so obviously we both did a study abroad. I actually did another one, but we’re not going to dove into that right now. But what I do want to talk about is obviously both of us did a study abroad. Then we came back and then our lens and our perspective on education system as a whole kind of changed. So I really want to talk about how academia and like your perspective on academia, especially in business school, because I have a very critical outlook on business school because of the difference between academia and the commercial value.

[00:31:37] Right. Commercial value of business is obviously you go out there and apply it. You go into a company and especially companies nowadays, they expect you to have like three, four years of experience when you graduate, like which nobody does. Yeah, compared to academia is talking about theory. Yeah, there is great. And that’s great to create a foundation for business, but it’s not how the real world works. Right. So kind of what is your perspective on business school in general?

[00:32:02] So I mean, interestingly enough, I recently started drafting up an article kind of going around the same thing since, like, I’m walking tomorrow, like. Commencement ceremonies tomorrow and I graduated like last quarters on March, I’ve had two two internships and I’m starting work in July next month. So like I’ve had a lot to think about, I’d say that it’s going to our school. Yukawa’s ended up being a really great thing. I’d say like I don’t really want to go to shore. And I feel like a lot of people didn’t. And unfortunately, the school I mean, it’s getting better now, but hasn’t had the best reputation.

[00:32:43] I mean, I was completely swamped, like in the time we’ve been here.

[00:32:46] Yeah, it’s a different suspect climbed. And I’m so happy for that because it’s like I think as you and I graduated, you graduated. But you’re doing MBA now. You’re going to graduate next year. And I’m graduating and our friends are graduating. It’s like we can say that we’re a part of this legacy. And like I so, I mean, I won’t necessarily be in the area, but I still want to be like committed to helping the school grow and stuff like with recruiting and things like that anyway, like kind of going off on a tangent. But back to the article. So like the way that I started setting up this article is that, you know, I bring light to some of the cons that I experience, some of the pros I experience and like essentially rounded out into like my ideal college curriculum. So I think in general, our business school, to an extent, was I mean, it was good, but there were a lot of things holding it back. Yeah. Holding students back and holding the growth of the entire school back. And I mean, I’m just going to take a look at my list right now, basically.

[00:33:56] So. I know we can go like into like the cons and then the pros, and I think the best way is first being very critical about it.

[00:34:06] Yeah, because, I mean, before we even go into the concert, even the UK’s business school or other business schools, like every business school in the world, has very, very specific flaws. And that goes back into what I said earlier, which is academia versus the commercial world. Right. Completely different.

[00:34:22] Yeah. So, I mean, like to broaden that, I think I don’t know if it is the right word, but like the schools business school I feel like has and prepared me, you or any of us enough for the real world. I think school in general, outside of classes like there are networks and what we learn from each other through our own trial and error is preparing us. Yeah, but what I’ve gotten from my classes hasn’t necessarily prepared me and I learn that right away. When I was interning last year, like I felt kind of because I felt very lost, whereas I mean, maybe this is something for our school in general that should be taken into account. But like, I feel like other people were more prepared. But, you know, that’s through their own experiences. Maybe it was my own thing. Who knows? But yeah.

[00:35:09] So like to get into that, I’d say I’m just going to go in order for my freshman year to like now. OK, so like it started out with like open book courses or open book exams, online exams, especially for introductory courses like come on, we’re not learning anything. And I mean, luckily our business school is changing its structure. So it’s going to be a way more beneficial right now, set up as a pre business program where like first two years, you’re really not taking any business courses, you’re taking a couple couple of econ you’re taking like entomophagy.

[00:35:42] That’s five thirty. Thirty. Yeah, just right. Yeah, exactly.

[00:35:48] And but then to use starting your third year, fourth year like you start taking your business courses, but it’s like by that time you kind of need to start thinking about where you have to do in the business world. Yeah. Like if you have to wait till you’re 30 years old to do that, then, you know, you’re really holding students back. Yep. So like, luckily the school is like changing a structure and like it won’t be like that anymore. But yeah. So like a lot of these open book openings and or online exams were like introductory courses and that didn’t really matter. But it really, I guess in a way, sways students to not study and influences and to not really learn much out of it. I mean, for example, like you, it was an introductory class. But like didn’t you say that in one of your open book courses, which is supposed to be easy and end up being your worst grade versus like the much harder classes because it’s like you didn’t really learn much.

[00:36:41] Yeah, my my biggest thing is it’s just how I work as a person is the harder it is, the more time I put into it, the better I am at it, but easier it is. I just kind of put it aside. It’s not a priority. And I’m like, I’m just gonna be like, oh, this is easy. And I kind of wave it off. Yeah, unfortunately. Like, yeah, the class was super easy. I just I’m terribly open book exams because an open book exam, the whole point of that is supposed to find the answers in the book, which doesn’t teach you anything because nobody’s going to learn the information. Yeah, I’m better at it. You give me a short like here’s a write an essay on this topic and I’ll analyze it and like, put my philosophies in there. Yeah, there’s actual value. Exactly. Because that’s how I’m applying it to myself so I can now learn it instead of what is the definition of this. I’m like, I’m sorry, I’m in the real world. I don’t care about that definition because that definition means nothing.

[00:37:28] Yeah. Just going to go in one ear and out the other. That’s what happened to me, like in most of my classes, like I can’t remember what the hell I learned in the intro course, but yeah, I mean, moving on. So like, there’s that and then grading bias.

[00:37:41] And I know you’re someone you’re pretty passionate about this, too, right? I tell. Like when you have a writing class, a business writing class and 10 years. There’s definitely a bias in that. OK, I don’t know if there’s 20 years, but there are a lot of tears and it’s like one one person is going to get a lot easier and one person is going to get a lot harder. And top, top onto that. This is a business course. That’s a writing course, but it’s also a business course. And none of these TOS were business educated when you it when I took it. Yeah. Yeah. And before, when I. Yeah. When I took it as well as it was all English people. Yeah.

[00:38:21] So it’s just like frustrating that like bro you can’t teach me how to write like a business email because I don’t think you’ve actually worked for a corporation based off of the credentials that you provided us here in the quarter. And I have I know how to write emails and everyone write emails differently for like there’s a different target audience. I like writing something to your peer. You’re going to be a little more casual. You’re writing something to your CEO or manager or something like it’s going to be way more formal. So there was too much structure. And it’s just like it doesn’t really emulate that business environment, you know what I mean?

[00:39:00] No, I agree with that. And the reason I had a really big problem with especially that is some of the email one was yeah, like you said, there’s a thousand ways write an email. But the thing is, they were trying to teach you this this formatting, which is fine, like, that’s that’s important to learn. A professional for a lot of students are never done it in their life like a professional one. So, I mean, that was a good side of it. But the problem that I had with it was I’ve never spent more than 30 minutes on email in my life and I spent like thirty five minutes on that. And I got one of the highest grades in my section of the 80 percent. I was like, how do you get an 80 percent on email? That makes no logical sense, especially because in the in the like told me about 20 percent. How do you write it better? And in the business world, like you said, if you’re in a corporate, you end up writing about 100 miles a day. If you’re spending that much time per email, you’re going to be the least productive person in that job and you’re probably going to get fired. So I think it’s teaching the wrong perspective of how to write an email. They should teach you how to curate an email based off an audience. I think a better way of maybe approaching that entire assignment is they pick a random audience for each every single student, and then you have to write an email to them, to the audience. Exactly. Because that’s teaching the value of writing an email, not here’s a structure. Here’s how you have to write this sentence in this sentence, in this sentence, like nobody cares. It doesn’t work like that. When I read emails, I’m not spending my time to look at some of these grammar. Yeah, that’s great. Yes, they should have the grammar. I mean, the government matters, but it matters to an extent. But I’m saying like that word choice compared to that word choice compared to having that sentence there. I mean.

[00:40:29] Yeah. Or he said sort of like, come on. Yeah. Tell exactly how you want to like come out to like straightedge, you know, that kind of thing, because it’s like people won’t take you out here.

[00:40:39] So you want to have a personality. He’s like, yeah, OK, so yeah, grading bias. And then some courses just felt like there’s too much busy work. And I was probably just like the way that they were structured. Like, the idea of it was good, so to like for a couple of our courses, we just had to write weekly papers on like a certain topic with class, right? Yeah, articles and books. And but the problem was that I can’t remember how many words, but it was like two or three or four pages, two pages, two pages, three pages, four books, two pages, four articles, two to three pages, single spaced Double-Sided. And that’s just like way too much for, like one week of writing.

[00:41:29] So, I mean, if you’ve experienced those classes to think about that, I mean, my biggest thing is I like the idea of it, because what it is doing is it’s you’re reading a book and actually analyzing it. Right. The issue that I have with it is students don’t take just one class. If it was just one class, you took that that’s actually going to teach you analysis and that’s trying to teach how to really deep dove into books and articles and make sure you really understand it and all this kind of stuff. Sure. But I think where the disconnect comes from is students like myself. I take five classes a quarter, which is also not smart, but taking multiple classes and a quarter. What that does is I have a certain time frame. I can do everything. If I don’t have enough time to do that, I’m not going to put the effort that is necessary for me to get the value out of what I’m supposed to be doing. Like, I like the idea and concept, but in practice, it’s not always going to be the most useful way of teaching somebody a value. Or like, here’s this book. What is the main things you’re getting out of it? Because a lot of students, what they do is they just go to spark notes. I can tell. Yeah, summarize it and then they slap that on and that’s all they get. But then they’re going to be right.

[00:42:28] Yeah, that’s the other thing is just like everyone knows, that’s one of these classes are like into A, B like B average. There’s like they know, they’re like, oh, just put them in. Whatever you’re going to be, you put some extra effort, you might get a B plus million, A minus. And if you suck up to the Professor Daniel, you can.

[00:42:48] That’s also not 100 percent true, because if you do write a good enough analysis, you will get it in those classes. Like that kind of disconnect also comes from the effort level because people have that perspective. I’m going to be so they never try to fight for that. And I think also some classes give out A’s to usually. So it is kind of a mixture of both, because I think that some classes should be a little bit more critical about how you get an A because some people don’t even know anything. The concert, like the course concepts, they get a name. Like how? Oh, yeah, that’s right. I mean, like, yeah.

[00:43:16] So some schools do have grade inflation. So in a sense it is good that it is harder to get that aid because it puts more value in like, you know, of course that you’re taking. But yeah, I don’t know, I think just the way it’s set up, like promoted too much laziness in that sense. But yeah. Um, moving on. So. This isn’t a case for many people, not necessarily a lot of people, but do lectures who were, I guess, hired to teach a course, a weekend or like last second right before the course is supposed to start. So like my last quarter of school, I took a database management class. I cannot tell you one thing that I learned from database management like at all, because the guy was condescending. Like I didn’t know how to teach the guy praise himself. And I mean, when he talked, like when he started dropping knowledge, I knew that wasn’t related to the class. I was engaged because I was like, OK, this guy is kind of smart, but just like I don’t learn anything because he didn’t know how to teach and he just read off the lecture slides honestly, like, I don’t think he cared about the grades that he gave out. He’s kind of just getting used, to be honest.

[00:44:27] Actually, no, I didn’t get any in the class because my exam grades, but like, you still got on the projects, but you still got to like, did you get like a high value? I think I got a B plus. Exactly. And that shows that. And he didn’t take anything out of it. Yeah, that’s kind of what I was talking about, the grades, because some people like realistically like how do you even get a B plus in a class if you don’t understand anything?

[00:44:46] Yeah, yeah. I just like memorize stuff. Yeah.

[00:44:49] And then again in one year out the other again for the second midterm and then tried to regurgitate all the information for the final and then. Yeah, I don’t remember anything on class man. I get sad. Do you have any professors like that.

[00:45:06] I did have one experience like that and it was actually a kind of everybody had a problem with it because it was a last second add on for econ. It was a microeconomics class in the MBA program and it was a last second not on.

[00:45:22] It was a film professor. The guy was a genius, don’t get me wrong. Like he he knew his stuff. He was really, really smart. But that was the problem. He was really, really, really smart. So he was teaching microeconomics to students. I’ve never done economics in their life. Right. And he starts off very first class with log functions with with like econometrics theory, went into like a Google search. Like some of the stuff he was teaching was like advanced philosophies and microeconomic theory or some kind of stuff like that. And I’m like, how is this guy teaching this? And be like, yes, we’re MBA students. Of course we’re supposed to manage. We’re supposed to be very educated. But if you don’t have a basis of economics to jump into that, you’re not getting any value to the students in the class. I don’t think they learn much because he’d even start with supply and demand. He went straight to log functions. If you’re going to econ and understand what a supply and demand is, you can’t go into stuff like marginal utility, like the more difficult stuff to you. Learn the baby steps. Right. And I think not only is it like the last second add ons is that’s a problem. Of course, sometimes they have to do it because whatever circumstance they do have to do it so they can always get around that. But the professor needs to learn, like understand read the class. Yeah. If we don’t understand what you’re talking about, don’t continue with it. Sit down and then work with us. We’ll give you feedback. We’ll say like, look, we don’t understand any of this. Yeah. I was lucky enough that I had some background econ, so I was able to pick it up. But most students, that class, I could just tell their eyes were wide open. There’s like I don’t I don’t know any of this. I’m dropping out, not even dropping out. They just, like, stopped attending class because why would they attend class? There’s no benefit in that. And it was an MBA. We actually have a lecture capture. That class was not in a room with Lecture Carphone. So even students like it, just like what is the point? Because we came in like read look at the slides. I understand what the problem says he’s going through and he’s going through this crazy calculus level stuff that most like students like the MBA. Usually these students come from like medical fields or engineering. Well, engineers should be able to do it. But certain fields I’ve never seen this in their life before.

[00:47:14] It was over the averages on the exams or they were like forty percent or like they were really, really low.

[00:47:21] But the thing the thing, though, is like the best were curves come in. That’s like that’s a good and a bad thing and education systems. But like for instance, classes that like everybody balms like obviously nobody really learned. Everybody fills a class. There’s no way everybody learns.

[00:47:35] And that should send the school a message like that’s not good. Exactly. Yeah. Anyway, so the last one I have is and this is something that I learned from studying abroad and something I realized as soon as I came back from studying abroad, and I’m sure you did, to the lack of passion from a majority of lecturers, professors, because like I mentioned earlier, that, like the professors and lecturers in Hong Kong were like very invested in doing, whereas there’s only a few that eyewitnessed here, UCR, that they were really engaging and very passionate, excited to teach. So, yeah, I think that should also send a message to our school and other schools in general, like, you know. What’s the point in having people teach you when they’re not invested into it themselves?

[00:48:30] Yeah, I mean, that kind of falls once again, like you see schools or research facilities and the professors have to do research. So some of the professors that really it’s unfortunate, but they’re not the best at teaching information. They’re here to do their research, which comes first. But that being said, we’re paying tuition. We’re here for school. We’re here for a business school. If we are not engaged, the class the professor can read that we’re not engaged with the class. We’re not also learning. And that’s the whole purpose of academia is for us to learn. So I do agree that is a problem that needs to be addressed.

[00:49:01] Yeah, absolutely. OK, so that was the list of cons out. Now the pros. So we all have to touch too much on this because it’s pretty self-explanatory. But no one is case studies. I know, like a lot of top tier schools incorporate these studies. But the number one thing is my case is that, like, they’re so popular. So I only experience one class of cases I UCR. And when I took that class, just like I do, other classes have this. I like why my writing long ass papers when I could be learning about it actually happening in companies. Yep. And the biggest thing which I’ll go into later is like it really teaches you how to think and really like sets you up for the real and that’s it.

[00:49:51] I mean I’ve been going off and I understand why they don’t have too many case studies in undergrad. It’s because you have to have a very good theoretical background before business, before you apply, because case studies are all about application of the theory you learn in class. I agree and operate efficiently, especially a fourth year. Yeah, it’s a disservice to students not teaching them how to do a case study. You don’t know how to analyze a problem in a company to find a solution. Yeah, my issue with case studies comes in is depending on what subject it is, sometimes it’s pushed so far back that it doesn’t create value for student. So, for instance, if I’m doing digital marketing and talking about case studies from 2012, yeah, the digital sphere has changed. So different that what I’m learning from 2012, even if I found the solution to that problem, the problems that exist now, that is irrelevant. The technology moves too fast. So I’m for case studies, but I’m also somewhat against it because it’s looking into the past, not the future. OK, yeah, but balancing that off. I still think the application side is what students in business really, really need.

[00:50:46] Yeah, just in general. You’re OK. Yeah. So that and then I’d say, I’d say group projects with incentives. So I’m realizing as I’m reading this list that they’re also a cons list because these pros are stuff. There are things that I like noticed like once or twice out of like there are opportunities.

[00:51:05] I would say I wouldn’t say that they’re necessarily like even the cons. Yeah. I think all of this is like an opportunity.

[00:51:11] Yeah. That’s a much better way of looking at it. But yeah, like out of the like I don’t know, forty six fifty classes. I took only like two or three had projects that had practical value and which.

[00:51:25] Put you in a real life situation, they weren’t like kind of just made up situations, which, I mean, to do something satisfying to begin depending on the course. But like, for example, one of the courses I took put us in a group project which was defined as like a consulting project, which excited me because, I mean, I was about to start working at Deutche. So that’s more of a consulting thing. And so that excited me. But what else excited me was that it was more of a competitive environment, but in a good way. So it was like you’re not kind of just doing this for yourself, but it’s like you’re more motivated by like, oh, I want to come up with the best solution because I really care about the school. And the other thing is that with the competition came incentives. So like I just said, like, you’re doing better for the because of this project involve the business school as a whole. So it was a big deal. And it was the first time this professor was new to the university, the first time that I had seen in many other people it seemed like a project that directly involved the school and which, like all the projects which would go into actually building the actual legitimate benefit. And that benefit has been seen. So like we had to I think we had to come up with like a program like experiential learning experience or something like that, like learning strategy kind of for the university. Yeah. So that was exciting because it was like one I’m passionate about helping the school out to find three. I got to do with my friends for it was well guided. What’s hot. And now I mean my team didn’t win, but like everyone’s ideas went into like a program now called our lead, our lead or something like that to which incentivizes a lot of students to gain more practical value outside of the classroom. So like a win win situation for everyone, it’s pretty fun and it’s awesome. Another course, half the same professor, another one of his projects. It was a different kind of incentive where, like, it incentivizes you to actually work hard because the respiring involved. So the team was allowed to fire one of their members if they weren’t, you know, participating, that kind of thing. And like everyone was ranked, like, consistently throughout the course. So, no, it was a lot. But like and there was a lot of work in that class. But I think just.

[00:53:51] That just that’s real world application.

[00:53:53] Yeah, absolutely, like actually, if I exactly how the real world works, like if you’re not performing, you’re not doing your job and you’re not creating value for a corporate company, as much as you might hate it, you’re going to get fired. That’s just how the rule works. So I think that’s that’s those are both super, super valuable. Yeah.

[00:54:08] So, I mean, in general, that was the end of the opportunities of this story. I guess continuing it now in the sense like what I want to see and what other people want to see as like or what what would be our ideal college curriculum. So I’m going to run through this list really quick and then we can talk about it. So again, Kastari, I, I’m just keeping that up like, yeah, we need more than we to touch a lot about that already. And we talked about this too, but like less memorizing and more applying and doing so essentially learn by doing and I think everyone’s different find. Maybe memorizing is really going to help some people, but I feel like I mean, you’re shaking your head, but I feel like some people, like, benefit from true like a minority. Most people will learn by doing so for actually like instead of writing essays and stuff and actually like working with other companies, doing just like the class. I was just talking about where we’re working with organizations on campuses as the whole or other companies. And like you, I mean, this wasn’t necessarily a class, but like you led a consulting program working with the youth engineers. Yeah, exactly. So that next, more real life scenarios and extra content. Do we talk about already like incorporating books into. No, we didn’t. Yeah. So this one is interesting because so and one of the courses I took it was conflict and cooperation and groups and it was led by one of the professors I mentioned who like incorporated this great project. But I think the one thing about this class for me, I mean, I know I’ve been the same thing for everyone, but like, I had already done internships. So a lot of it wasn’t new material because it was like it was theory and it was like I didn’t really connect with me. And I understood it from a more practical point of view. May have helped others. I’m not sure. But I feel like I think a lot of my peers felt the same way where there was too much theory and less practical value. So the point I’m trying to make is I, I would have like to see more, I guess, books involved, like actually reading passages of the book.

[00:56:20] So like one that I happened to be reading while I was taking this course as I was commuting back and forth from home in school, there was an audio book or. Yeah, I was listening to an audio book. He was called Extreme Ownership by Geocode, JoCo Willink and Leif Babin. These two guys are in the Navy SEALs and a very high ranking people. And so after their time in the Navy SEALs, they they they open their management consulting firm. So this book was awesome because it taught a lot about leadership, a lot a lot about cooperation and conflict. So it was very relevant to the class I was taking, which I didn’t expect or didn’t realize. That’s what I was getting into. And it was cool because they talked first about their experiences in the Navy SEALs, which may not necessarily tie into, you know, you’re in my daily life, but it also is very relevant at the same time, just taking the examples that they had and applying it to yourself. But even better, they tied it into their business experience being management consultants. So they’re able to show like real life examples that they that they experience. And they’re teaching you the reader, like the listener, like, you know, this is a really good way to go about it. And I even pretty sure they even dropped one or two names of the theories I was learning in class. But they provided examples like legit examples and walk through the whole thing. So it was funny. It was cool. I was reading that book and taking that class at the same time. It was that made me realize that, like, you know, if we had more books, more practical things like this and less theory, it would be way more relevant to what we’re learning.

[00:57:58] I mean, like that kind of goes into, like, some of the stuff we even do for our company. It comes from the book Contagious. Right. And like from that book, I didn’t see the value, obviously, when I read it back then. Yeah, I now see the value of it because I understand how those philosophies in that book relate to moralization of marketing material. Yeah. And that also goes into another class that I’m currently kind of the reader for, and that one has three books about entrepreneurship, and I think students will learn a lot from other people’s experiences and entrepreneurship and seeing examples like exactly what you brought up instead of just here’s a theory on entrepreneurship. Like you can’t learn entrepreneurship in theory. You’ve got to practice it and see it and actually try yourself. So I do agree that, like, not textbooks. Yeah, it’s great. That’s academia. Some classes need it’s like a supply chain. You’re gonna need to read a textbook. That’s great. But a lot of marketing classes is classes, negotiations, classes. Those should have more physical books written by outside sources and then put it back into the text.

[00:58:56] Yeah, actually, I should add on the class I brought up did involve a lot of practical things, like we had our teams and we did a lot of fun activities in class. And so it brought those theories to life. But at the same time, I mean, those examples were good. They gave more perspective to it, but at the same time, they weren’t like showing it in the real world. So it was like, OK, fine, great use of class. I’m actually like from the outside. It was somebody who didn’t understand. The content would be like, what the hell are you guys doing playing games in class? But that was a cool way of approaching a cool way of approaching it. But yeah. Good point. Yeah. OK, so what else did your curriculum so more real life scenarios, which is what we went into, we talked about projects with practical value. And then we touched upon this already a little bit, but replacing unnecessary courses, and that just goes down to the design of the program. So like some schools like ours repreve business program, which we talked about this already. Right. Yeah. So now luckily, I mean, unfortunately for us, like, it hasn’t changed yet, but it’s changing in a couple of years, four years and something I think that actually. Yeah. So it’s going to be designed in a way where students are taking this course from the start. This start. So like for me, I had to take I mean, yes, the way things are set up, students will probably still have to take physical science courses and stuff like that. But that’s U.S. education that you’re not going to get around that. That sucks. But, you know, at the same time, it was like I had my entomophagy grade defining my grade, my GPA for that quarter. And that was just so disheartening.

[01:00:40] You know, I was like it was like, what the hell am I doing in my life right now? Like, I don’t know if I want to do marketing or finance. I mean, obviously, I learned I don’t want to do finance, but like, you know, you have this question, your head, like, what am I supposed to do in life? So I’m not taking any business courses right now. And I’m taking a class on history, teaching a class and bugs and taking a class on creative writing. OK, creative writing was helpful, but like. Yeah, that’s just one class out of the three that you didn’t. So, yeah, exactly.

[01:01:08] So it’s not going to give the same value. No, I agree with that.

[01:01:11] I think not only just not not remove enough to remove every class, but updating it. So I know that’s one big thing. It’s not just that UCR, it’s across the entire world, for instance, information systems. It’s very, very new in the business, like not on doing the bits, like there’s been like 1990s. It’s existed in academia. But the issue is the information systems, the most technical business that you can do. Right. And the issue is what they teach in classes is so outdated.

[01:01:40] Do it like IBM is constant and you feel like I’m not going to go. Yeah, exactly. Like I can’t tell you too much about what I learned as an information systems person because I really like the courses I had were more marketing entrepreneurship orientated, which I loved actually. Like it was fun because that’s more of who I am.

[01:01:57] Obviously, I wanted more of that technical background to diversify my skills, but like.

[01:02:01] Yeah, like I can I mean, it’s shifting the right way. And I think universities all over the world are kind of figuring that out. That’s why they’re adding like these like the masters in digital, like literally just digital or is Amaya’s and all these kinds of things reasoning for that as they realize that that’s where everything is going. Technology, you’ve got to learn it, but that comes through academia, bureaucracy. It takes like two years to get a class approved. In that three year time frame, technology swung like four times at least six months. There’s a new technology what we know now about lockshin in two years, if it became a class, it’s irrelevant. I’m happy right now, especially at UCR. We are updating the classes very, very quickly. So we’re doing classes in Python now, which is a technical skill. Read this. And this is people like business students. You need to understand that. Yeah. Mean, I don’t know exactly Python understanding. Are our studio like statistical languages? Getting away from some outdated stuff like Eskil is great database, but Eskil itself, not a lot of companies use it. They use no skill and all these other new languages. Speaking of basketball, I didn’t learn an exact school on my database class, even though we won over. But, you know, you figure out the loopholes. Yeah. So I mean, that that kind of goes what I’m talking about, that not only just eliminating legal limit, it is kind of, I guess, a harsh way of saying, I think we’re updating and making sure that the curriculum is going out as fast as the real world market is. The commercial markets are because the whole point of a business school prepare you for the business world. I think UCR itself is going in the right direction. I think you see, I personally love the administration, the U.S. School of business. The reasoning is that the professors, the dean, the faculty, everybody listens to students. So what we’re even talking about right now, they’re actively trying to change it. Yeah, the issue is that they just can’t change it fast enough. And that’s where bureaucracy comes in. And unfortunately, that’s just how it is. But at the same time, I’m happy to see the changes that are happening because honestly, five years down the line, I can see UCR as one of the best business schools.

[01:03:48] So, yeah, it’s very interesting to see what’s going to happen. No, I’m totally excited for that. Yeah, that’s that basically rounds out everything I wanted to talk about in this article. So glad we’re able to have a discussion about that. And like, yeah, hope people are taking note, too, because I think as alumni we were able to have a pretty rounded perspective. You know, when you’re young and you’re in your sophomore year, you can only say so much about it. You know, once you start working and stuff, you realize like the impact that school has had on you.

[01:04:19] Yeah. And I think just to kind of close out this conversation, I think it’s very, very important, no matter what your background is and all that kind of stuff, once you graduate as alumni, give back to the school, give your feedback, try to develop the school, you’re leaving a legacy behind. I really despise when students are just talking crap about a university, not doing anything about it, or they talk crap about a degree and not doing anything about it. If you’re in something, make the most of it. Both of us, a lot of people I know as well, they’re actively trying to, you know, talk to the Dean, talk to professors. Oh, we should do this, this and this. Not everything can be done. But if you don’t speak out, you complaining does nothing. So I think that’s kind of the where I want to end. This is if you are complaining about your education, do something about it. And once you’re an alumni, give back, make the school you Automator make it better. I agree. All right. Is there any final comments you want to end this on your final piece of advice, whether it be around education or what your last last thoughts on it?

[01:05:23] I think just what you said was like you hit the nail on the head. I would have said, like, pretty much the same thing, you know, give back, be involved, don’t complain. I complain a lot in my life. So I think I can say that because I’ve learned from that beginning in general is like, you know, take those failures because take risks in school, in education, because in the end, it’s going to pay off because you’ll learn from it if you’re willing to learn from it, like, yeah, you mess up one time, you don’t get an interview or something, like your interview doesn’t lead you to a job.

[01:05:58] You know, you’ll be disheartened for day and then move on and learn what you did wrong. So that I think principle applies to everything, education, but like everything in life, I think we’ll just end it there.

[01:06:12] I think this is a good conversation. Absolutely. And the right the.

[01:06:23] Thank you for tuning into the brew. I hope you enjoyed this episode and tell us what you thought about our conversation in the comments below. If you guys like our content, make sure to follow us on the various social media platforms and we will see you all next.

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